Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1993 10:00:36 +0100 From: Dominique Petitpierre Lloyd Wood (Receipt Notification Requested) (Non Receipt Notification Requested), K A Sturrock (Receipt Notification Requested) (Non Receipt Notification Requested), John Armstrong (Receipt Notification Requested) (Non Receipt Notification Requested), Sam Sheng (Receipt Notification Requested) (Non Receipt Notification Requested) Subject: SUMMARY: Is the Apple 8*24 GC video display board worth something? Here is a summary of the answers I received and informations I found out about my question: "Is the Apple 8*24 GC video display board worth something?" In short: It is not worth buying it. Acceleration is not compatible with System 7 (my problem) nor with 68040 CPUs. 24 bit colors works only on 13" monitors. In long: Here is my original message: >From: petitp@divsun.unige.ch (Dominique Petitpierre) >Subject: Is the Apple 8*24 GC video display board worth something? >Summary: Why do the MacWorld benchmarks show no real acceleration? >Should I buy the card? >Keywords: video display card, 24 bit color, graphic acceleration >Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 13:11:45 GMT > >I have the opportunity to buy a second hand accelerated color video display >board, the Apple 8*24GC, to use in my MacIIx with an Apple 13" monitor. It >seems a good deal: it is sold for $ 400 when the list price is $ 1340. > >But then I read the review "24-bit Color Graphics" in the February 1993 issue >of MacWorld (p 153). Their benchmark table show no real improvement between >the non accelerated and accelerated Apple boards: (+ 10% to + 20% for >low-level QuickDraw tests, at best +10% in real-world tests, even 6% slower >for horizontal scrolling). But the boards description claims Quickdraw >acceleration by a factor 5 to 30? > >Where is the mistake? > >On the board there are two slots for DRAM. The description is quite vague >about their purpose: some programs can use this memory to store "off display" >images. What programs know how to take advantage of this? Is it worth buying >the DRAM for it? > >I intend to use this card for graphic applications such as FreeHand, >Illustrator, PageMaker and Photoshop, with images from Kodak CDs and from a >256 levels of grey scanner (HP Scanjet). Will this card really speed >operations of these tools? Some relevant facts from the specification sheet from an Apple authorized dealer: - Name: Macintosh II Display Card 8.24 GC (I believe this is what appears in the window when you click the "Options" button of the "Monitors" Control Panel.) - resolutions: max 16.7 million colors on a 640 x 480 pixels monitor max 256 grays on a 640x870 pixels monitor max 256 grays on a 1152x870 pixels monitor - video: RS-343 and RS-170 (NTSC, interlaced); only 256 colors with "Apple convolution" for flicker free display. - extensibility: 2 SIMMS slots to add up to 8 MB extra memory for "processing large off screen graphics" (retranslated back from French :-), notice that it won't let you use a larger monitor). Facts from Larry Pina's book "MacIntosh Repair and Upgrade Secrets", Simon & Schuster (pp 132, 140, 142,144, 149, 169): - special software (p 139): needs a 32 bit Quickdraw extension in your system on a Mac II/IIx/cx. - compatibility with Virtual Memory (p 169): "Early versions of the MacIntosh Display Card 8.24GC (graphic accelerator) don't work unless the accelerator is disabled" - DRAM upgrade (p 140): Official Apple Macintosh Display Card DRAM Kit (part M0505LLA/A, 2 1MB SIMMS) or generic SIMMS up to 8MB total. Vague information: it seems that the extra DRAM memory is called "GWorld". I don't know what it is or what it means. Answers received by Wednesday October 20th: >From: John A. Feinberg > >The price of $400 for the 8*24GC + the Apple monitor is a steal; the monitor >alone is probably worth $300! The 8*24GC is not as valuable as it once was, >since it does not work in accelerated mode on a 68040 computer. Since you >are using a IIcx, that is not a problem. The SIMM slots are more likely >for the purpose of supporting more colours on larger monitors. You don't >need to bother filling them if you are going to be using a 13" monitor. The >card will have enough memory on it already to support millions of colours at >640x480. Just to clarify things: the prices quoted were only for the board and did not include the monitor (sorry for my ambiguous English); and I have a IIx not a IIcx. >From: Lloyd Wood > >The acceleration on the GC is incompatible with System 7. You have to turn >it off. Might be related to the problem with virtual memory mentioned in Larry Pina's book. This probably explains also why the benchmarks of MacWorld did not show any significant acceleration. >From: (K A Sturrock) > >You don't want it. > >The Accelerated 8*24GC board is highly buggy and support for it has >dissapeared since System 7 has arrived. > >Many older programs (including Apple stuff like Apple File Exchange) crash >the machine or work in weird ways (like having your text disappear under an >older copy of ATM with Pagemaker....). The current init for the board really >does nothing and acceleration is minimal. > >Also, the board won't support 24bit color on anything bigger than a 13" >AppleColor. > >The 8*24GC was the worst purchase I've ever authorized.... Conclusion: I will not buy the board, even for $400. What I find quite infuriating is that these compatibility problems were not mentioned by the Apple authorised dealer that wanted to sell the new board to me; The other Apple authorised dealer that is selling the second hand board (which they were using it until a week ago) mentioned the incomptibility with 68040 CPUs but not with virtual memory or System 7, he even said that the extra DRAM could be added to allow for larger monitors which is false. Moral of the story: don't trust dealers even if they are authorized by Apple! -- Mr. Dominique Petitpierre / ISSCO, University of Geneva, Switzerland petitp@divsun.unige.ch/ S=petitp;OU=divsun;O=unige;PRMD=switch;ADMD=arcom;C=ch